Nat

Nat: My name is Nat. I’m 20 years old, and my pronouns are they/them.

Interviewer: Would you please give a visual description of yourself for our listeners?

N: I have a middle part-I recently got a haircut but-I have a middle part, and I wear glasses. My hair is dark brown-it almost looks black at this point. I’m half Japanese and half Korean. I have two piercings; I have a septum and I have a nostril piercing on my right if you’re looking at me I think? And then I have my ears pierced.

I: What do you do?

N: So, I’m currently a student at Berklee College of Music, I’m currently in my last year. I also work at my school’s library, which has been a treat. But yeah, that’s what I do.

I: How does your body feel at this moment?

N: I’m definitely a little nervous, cause I don’t really do interviews except for job ones, and I’m not really in front of the camera very often, so I guess like just a little bit of performance anxiety.

I: Can you tell me about the moment you realized you were trans?

N: I grew up assigned female at birth. I experienced a good portion of my life existing as a woman. Up until pretty much I guess, my junior year of college. Which was when I started experimenting with gender, and experimenting with it on myself, and being open to parts of my identity that I haven’t really spent a lot of time thinking of. I mean I had sort of thought about it here and there, but it-cause my friend, my really good friend from high school, Fall, they came out as nonbinary like 20.... It’s been a long time actually, they’ve been out for a while. But yeah, I knew that they were nonbinary and it was.. And I had another friend who also came out as nonbinary from highschool and I was like... yeah. *laughs* And then kind of seeing that and observing that, I had just thought about the concept a little bit more and I was like, you know that kinda makes a lot of sense, specifically for me. And then it took a little while for me to think about it a little bit more. It took certain experiences, and being referred to as certain things that I realized I wasn’t super comfortable with, and then eventually I came to the conclusion and I was like okay, I definitely think I feel more masculine my identity. And also that’s a whole ‘nother thing too like, defining what masculinity is? Which I’m honestly still figuring that stuff out.

I: Are you “out”? What does being “out” mean to you?

N: I’ve told people that I’m nonbinary, that I use they/them. I’m out to my parents, my family knows. My sibling’s also nonbinary too so that’s pretty cool. I guess being “out” is just letting the world know who you are, and what your identity is.

I: Do you experience gender dysphoria?

N: It does have its ebbs and flows, especially on days where I feel a little more in my body, and I feel a little more anxious. And there are parts of my body that I...*sigh* It's stressful sometimes because it’s like wow I really wish this wasn’t here, and it’s also like I don’t know. I need to get into getting binders and also just trans tape in general just to feel a little more euphoria, or just to feel a little less dysphoric. I don’t know, it feels not great I guess. It feels anxious, it feels... It just sucks. It’s like looking at somebody, or looking at your body that’s not really what you want it to be, or what you feel you exist in.

I: Could you tell me a little more about your transition journey?

N: I didn’t really struggle much with coming to terms with it, except maybe.. It was honestly-it was also like a really long process. It’s actually interesting, there was this one person I was seeing romantically who was one of the first nonbinary people and trans person that I’d ever dated or been with. They kinda opened up, we had a lot of conversations just about gender that sort of opened me up to that space, and opened my mind up to that. I mean, I always was open minded, but opened up my mind to it for myself. And it got me to think about it a little more, because I haven’t really spent much time thinking about gender, especially because I had a pretty tough childhood and I just didn’t really have the space to do that. So, I feel like I might be going down that pipeline of like I started off with ‘she/they’ and I was like okay yeah I’m digging this. And then at one point, I was like, maybe let’s try ‘they/she’. I had dated somebody while my pronouns were ‘they/she’, and I feel like I might’ve told them that I had a preference for ‘they’, but I don’t know, he kind of like, wasn’t using it at all. And I was like yeah, I’m really not liking this at all. And then once things ended I was like, okay I need to take being single seriously. And after that I was like okay I think I feel better using ‘they/them’. I just-I really wanna know what it would be like to..... I don’t know. Just-I just wonder-because the thing is, I’ve been called... I’ve been randomly affirmed like-I posted this on my story, about going to Dunkin’, and then the guy, like I walk in with my little bomber jacket, and I have my hair parted. And he looks at me and he goes “Here you go, boss.” And I was like, just being called ‘boss’, I was like woah that’s awesome. *laughs*

Recently, this was last December, when I had shaved my head for the first time? That was crazy!! *laughs* I was like so-because my friend was the one that shaved my head. And I like, I don’t know, I had this huge grin on my face. And I just like... feeling my hands on my head. First of all, having a shaved head; if anybody, if you’ve shaved your head you know. It feels SO GOOD. In terms of just like, you have all these nerves on your head so you can actually feel it. I just remember walking out after I had gotten my head shaved, and I felt so giddy. I guess there wasn’t really an exact moment, it was definitely just a process of me thinking and experimenting and figuring things out and seeing what feels the most authentic for me.

It’s crazy, the church I grew up in, so transphobic. And them saying like-oh I remember just growing up and hearing things about it where they’d say things like “Why would you want to subject your child to all these shots and medications” and I was like, and I remember just in my head thinking-and I was so little too-and I was like, why wouldn’t you want your kid to be happy? That’s literally the only thing you’re taking away from them, is their joy to live authentically as themselves.

I: What was your family’s reaction to your coming out?

N: My parent’s reactions, initially were, I was like yeah they seem pretty supportive of it. And, it’s still tough, especially with my dad-don’t even get me started with him. Like, you know, he was actually really sweet about it. He was like “Oh okay, yeah sure, you’re my Nat. That’s fine” and I was like okay cool. And then following that it was just like being misgendered and him circling back and being like “Oh I don’t understand, how can you be a they? That’s like multiple people, you can’t-” and I was like “Ugh what is happening? I thought we’d gone over this!!” And I have gone over it so many times with him, it’s just ‘boomer brain’ I guess. And my mom, I think she’s very supportive, and she’s also curious too. I appreciate her asking questions, because I want her to be curious about it and want to know that part of my identity. You know, I think she tries, I guess part of it too is English being her second language is also why maybe she struggles with the whole gender stuff. But, I don’t know, they didn’t take it horribly, so I guess that’s nice. It’s just that I still have to deal with being misgendered whenever I’m around them.

I: What has your experience been in your career as a trans person?

N: Music business as a major itself and the industry is just not my favorite thing ever. First of all, I wanna say that 3⁄4 of the staff is men. There is a huge lack of representation, in terms of just any other gender. And my professors, a lot of them are boomers and don’t really understand. With the industry itself-I did an internship this summer, I won’t say the company-but they seem like the type of company where they are very open and understanding. They represent a lot of artists who are typically marginalized, and they want to give them a platform and things like that. It’s interesting because as a trans person, there is this sort of fear of like... I haven’t told them that I use my government name or dead name with them, just because I get nervous to assert myself in a certain way. I applied before I started to make the decision to be like, I think this feels more comfortable and this feels more like me. I hadn’t even told them I was nonbinary until I was hired and then they were like “Let’s go around and introduce ourselves! And let’s state our name and pronouns if you want!” And I was the only nonbinary person and trans person amongst... I was working with mostly women, actually. There wasn’t a single man. But also it was kinda like ugh..it feels a little alienating, it feels a little like, I feel nervous. The executive director, she’s a very kind woman, and I think she means well, but there have been a few times where she did end up misgendering me. Which wasn’t great, and I also was sort of able to understand that she’s also... I hate using that... like I don’t want to excuse it, but she’s also old. And she was actually not bad at it, she would catch herself the majority of the time. But then there was this one email where she was like “Help her with this” and I was ugh okay.

But for the most part, I don’t know, it’s definitely a little hard to navigate because you don’t know if the people you’re working with are gonna be transphobic if they are cis persons. So, it’s nervous, it’s nerve wracking, it’s like I don’t know what I’m walking into. And so that’s why I didn’t even tell them I was trans up until I was literally being introduced. I was like, you know what, it’s too late, you can’t back out now, I’m already hired. And I’m kinda nervous to see how I navigate it in the future. I like to think that I am accepted as a trans person, and that my identity is accepted fully and wholeheartedly within the queer community. And, you know, there’s sometimes I have moments where some of my friends who are cis, friends in the LGBTQ+ community, who have also misgendered and stuff like that. And it’s just like, be an ally to trans people. Understand that being trans, especially visibly trans, that immediately puts your fucking life in danger. And while with sexuality, it isn’t that openly blatant, like people can’t tell if you’re gay or straight just by the looks of you. But when you’re trans, there is that physical aspect. It sucks because then, you know, your identity is politicized, your identity is-you’re literally attacked for existing! And it’s scary, and it sucks. I guess sometimes I don’t know how much my cis friends, even if they are a part of the LGBT, can really understand and empathize with that.

I: What are your daily struggles as a trans person?

N: Internally, I struggle with how I’m going to be perceived that day. Which, it’s been nice because recently I’ve been getting new clothes, and I’ve been switching up my wardrobe in a way that would maybe help me appear a little more androgynous? It’s tough though because it’s not that I hated wearing clothes that were more feminine, but what I didn’t like was people’s association of my identity to the clothes I was wearing. These days, I don’t really, I haven’t worn a dress in months. First of all, it was winter, but also like..being cat called? Ugh, like bruh please!! So I struggle with that internally, of just how I want to be perceived that day. And it sucks because even if there are some days where I want to wear something that’s a little light fitted like dresses, I opt out of wearing them because I don’t want to be perceived as a woman today. Even if it’s hot outside, it’s like ugh I don’t want to wear pants! I could wear shorts, but I don’t own a lot of shorts. That’s a whole other issue, is finding shorts that actually look good and fit well, and are made for trans people. Because I feel like for a lot of men’s shorts, they fit skinny ass thigh and I’m like my thighs? They are not fitting through that, like I’m sorry.

Yeah, that’s what I struggle with kinda on the daily, or in terms of just an obstacle. I guess externally... I know my friends are very accepting, it’s just interesting because I still sometimes get nervous that they’re gonna end up misgendering me. It’s like I’m always hyper aware when I hear them talking about me. And I’m like okay, let me see which pronouns you’re using there. For the most part, I haven’t been misgendered, which is nice. And there have been instances where I have been, and it’s just sort of like, ugh. I remember getting this compliment? First of all, just don’t comment on somebody’s body. I had this acquaintance, and I hadn’t seen her in a while, and she came up to me like “Oh my god it’s so good to see you, I love your little mustache!” And I was like... what? Like oh my god, I’m sure she meant well but I was like babe, like I’m... I’m not... Why would you say that? Also it feels weirdly infantilizing? I’m literally just a fucking human being, like what the hell? Why would you say that? You wouldn’t say that to anybody, so it’s like, because I’m trans, you’re just going to make comments about my body because you’re going to make assumptions that these are things that make me feel affirmed? You don’t know me. Disrespectfully, fuck you. Why would you that? That’s an insane thing to say to a person. Yeah, it’s not making comments like that. I don’t feel safe when you actually tell me that you ‘like my little mustache’, disrespectfully.

It makes me really upset and sad to think about, that of most identities, thefact that trans women especially are attacked for no reason, for literally existing in spaces. And it’s like, why do you care so much about what a person does with themselves or how they express themselves? It’s just so mind-boggling to me that people have so much time on their hands.

I: When do you experience joy as a trans person?

N: I do enjoy dressing on the more masculine part of that spectrum, and it feels very affirming when I get to put on my silly little slacks, and put on my silly little shirt that’s tight fitting, but not in the tight fitting way in the feminine way. I love wearing short sleeved button ups, that is just so affirming. I experience joy in those moments. I experience joy when spending time with my other trans friends. There’s a certain level of safety I feel all the time, it’s just fun to talk about gender stuff too. I still have a decent amount of cis friends but when it comes to talking about gender, I just don’t talk about it. Or if I do talk about it, it feels like I’m talking about it, and it’s like I’m this elephant in the room talking about my gender so I don’t really do it that often. But in moments I do get to spend time with my trans friends, it feels joyful.

I: What would you like to tell our cis audience?

N: My existence shouldn’t be that complicated for you. That when I tell you I identify as a certain identity or a certain gender, that’s not your cue to tell me what I am or am not. That’s also not your cue to control who I decide to show up with, or who I decide to show up as. Honestly, sometimes my gender is just none of your business.

I:What does visibility and making space for trans people mean to you?

N: Visibility and making space for trans people means visibility in the sense of accepting them as they are, and however they show up wherever they are in their gender identity journey. It’s defending them and protecting them when there are violent transphobes roaming the streets who’re blatantly misgendering them. It’s making it a point that they’re protected, that it’s an open space for them to exist. That whoever they’re with is a kind person and isn’t going to judge them for how they show up. It’s working on language to make them feel more included in conversation. It’s making sure that they’re being respected as a person and within their identity. It’s not judging them or being transphobic towards them when they tell you not to use a certain word or not perceive them a certain way. It’s making sure that you’re really listening to them and making them feel heard and respected as a human being. And just not being weird. Just don’t be weird! It’s crazy how the concept of transness, for whatever reason, is just so hard for them to grasp. Which I guess as a trans person, it’s not, because I am. All I know is that I’m not a woman. I just want that to be respected, and I don’t want to be perceived a certain way. And I want you to do the work to unlearn these socialized beliefs and perceptions that you’ve had of gender, and to actually take time to listen to trans people. And formulate opinions and thoughts.. Just listen to trans people.

I: What would you like to tell our trans audience?

N: I would like to tell all the trans viewers and listeners that I love you. And that I am 100% open to giving you the safest place possible. I want you to feel safe. I want you to feel like you can exist without your identity being politicized. I want you to exist freely in a society that isn’t transphobic, that accepts you wholeheartedly as you are as a human being. And that you’re cared for by so many other trans people and you’re here to protect each other when cis people, respectfully, don’t. It’s important for us to be allies with each other, and it's important for us to protect each other in any scenario or instance. You deserve to live a free and happy life that isn’t suffocated by societal expectations a pressures of what gender ‘needs’ to be.